Are 4x4's a threat to the safety of other road use

[Pamb]

Hi, I believe that 4x4's should not be allowed on the public road as they are a threat to the safety of other road users, and this is why.
A friend of mine was recently in an accident in her ford Ka which involved a drunk driver in a Range rover.
Sue was waiting to turn right at a tee junction when the 4x4 turned into the road she was waiting to pull out of, travelling far too fast for the wet road. He hit her ka on the drivers side almost rolling it over and completely caving in the drivers side, she ended up with a broken leg, collar bone, severe head injury and a fractured arm. The police officer on the scene said that the crash was only so bad because it was a 4x4 that hit her - I suppose it is obvious as they are much heavier and higher up than a normal car.
Sue recovered ok physically but is now terrified to drive in the rain - it was pouring when the accident happened.
This is why I hate 4x4's (and drunk drivers)

[Ivan Diederhoff]

you are associating a drunk driver to all 4x4 drivers. That isn't the case. Not everyone would be comfortable in a ford ka. Some have to carry a lot of groceries, or several children or coworkers and need a larger a vehicle. A car is an inanimate thing, it doesn't set out and think to injure someone. The lunatic that drinks too much and gets behind the wheel is a different story.

[franfran]

Most people who have a 4WD (or SUV if you would rather call it that) do not really need to have one. How many of them actually go off-road anyway? They are like small trucks and they are more often than not (but not always) driven by people that can't handle them properly. A large car, station wagon or, if you have to carry more than four passengers, a people mover, would be a more responsible option.

No-one buys that many groceries that they need a 4WD to carry them home, surely. And people were able to take their kids to school or co-workers wherever before these things became fashion statements. Driving one of these things is not the same as driving a car. They have a higher centre of gravity, so they're easier to topple over and, because they're higher up, it's easier to miss seeing other road users. I've almost been hit three times because some idiot driving one of these things decided to change lanes when I was next to them - and I don't drive a small car...

And what about their carbon footprint?

I'm not saying that some of them don't have a place on our roads, but a lot of them shouldn't be there.

[daverover]

several points come to mind

First, we live in a 'free' society and people are free to choose whatever design or size they want/need. If we lived in a society that dictated that everyone drove the same car I think most would be less than happy

Secondly, I use my old Range Rover for business, towing etc and for towing a caravan, which is how I choose to spend my holidays

Thirdly, my vehicle runs on LPG which is substantially cleaner than other fuels, and I only use the vehicle on weekends predominantly cutting down the use of fuel

Fourthly, we have used the vehicle for off roading and green laning, both of which are great fun

And lastly as we choose to holiday in the UK and not fly off abroad we benefit local economies as well as having a substatially smaller carbon footprint than others

Therein ends my reasoning for a Range Rover, and besides that I like it

[Pamb]

Thanks for sharing your views on this, I agree with franfran that most of these vehicles are not used appropriately - you don't need an off road vehicle to go to school supermarket etc. Yes we live in a free society but equally we all should feel a responsibility for the safety of others, and I believe that driving something that you know in the event of an accident is likely to cause more serious injury or even death to another road user purely because it makes you feel good is not responsible.
If it is needed for a legitimate reason then ok, but drivers should behave responsibly and know the limitations of their vehicle, and what a danger it poses to others. Maybe another class of licence is needed for them?
I know I am going on but I feel very strongly about this having nearly lost my best friend a few weeks after my husband died from cancer.

[daverover]

I see yr reasoning and the reason for it, however, it could be argued that people feel a responsibility to their own offspring's safety and in a 4x4 they are safer

[Ivan Diederhoff]

Thanks for sharing your views on this, I agree with franfran that most of these vehicles are not used appropriately - you don't need an off road vehicle to go to school supermarket etc. Yes we live in a free society but equally we all should feel a responsibility for the safety of others, and I believe that driving something that you know in the event of an accident is likely to cause more serious injury or even death to another road user purely because it makes you feel good is not responsible.
If it is needed for a legitimate reason then ok, but drivers should behave responsibly and know the limitations of their vehicle, and what a danger it poses to others. Maybe another class of licence is needed for them?
I know I am going on but I feel very strongly about this having nearly lost my best friend a few weeks after my husband died from cancer.

Not to harp on about this, but lay off going shopping and get a 6" snow fall or more. That 4x4 comes in handy on days like that. People have their own reasons for wanting a 4 wheel drive vehicle, some just feel more safe in them. But again, it isn't the vehicle, it is the driver.

[Moon-stone]

4 x 4s have a much longer braking distance from a given speed than regular cars. This surely makes them more dangerous?

[daverover]

Braking distance is pretty much irrelevant these days

Its the other equipment that determines how safe a vehicle is

A car with a short stopping distance will not be as safe as a big one that has ABS and ESP (Electronic Stability Prog)

The ESP takes over in an emergency and will not only allow the driver to steering and brake but will also actively stop the vehicle from going out of control - and yes it is as clever as it sounds and you can see a demo on numerous YouTube clips

[KiltyCol]

Quite a few standard cars are bringing out a 4 wheel drive version for the larger engine models. e.g. VW Golf R32, VW Passat V6, Vauxhall Insignia (just out).

On the Insignia, you can choose front wheel drive or for about £4000 (GBP) more, you can have 4 wheel drive to give extra traction.

You generally only need 4 wheel drive for off road driving or for high performance engines, to stick all the power onto the road without wheel spin.

[Guest]

4 x 4s have a much longer braking distance from a given speed than regular cars. This surely makes them more dangerous?

Why would it? If the driver has any sense, he/she will allow more space between vehicles. An inanimate object can't be dangerous, that is an attribute of a living animal, particularly, human animals. It isn't the machine that is dangerous, it it the human operating it.

Ivan, NSI

[FMJ]

Most 4x4 owners, probably all, have no idea how to drive the things and they buy them from a subconcious realisation that they have no driving ability whatsoever, and therefore buy a vehicle for their own safety reasons.

I live in the countryside, amidst some rough country. Every winter, the hedgrows are dotted with 4x4's lying on their side or worse. These vehicles are totally hopless on frozen tarmac, frost, or thin snow as they're unstable and too heavy. Off road in mud is where they perform best and not on regular roads.

You want to drive fast on slippery roads? Get a WRX or EVO...

[Salsito]

4x4's themselves do not cause accidents. It is the driver that causes an accident, even during mechanical breakdown due to incorrect handling.

Any large vehicle caught up in an accident situation will cause more damange than a smaller one, that should be obvious, should we ban all large vehicles (including lorries etc). Of course not, better education and training is most likely the key, that and maybe some restrictions on who can drive certain vehicles (perhaps age restrictions on higher power and larger vehicles - not saying its younger people who cause them but its a starting place and they do have less experience).

I should add I have owed several 4x4's but currently drive a clapped out peugeot but still regularly drive a long wheel base landrover, it's true you can't drive them in the same manner you would an ordinary car, you have to allow extra breaking distance (especially when heavily loaded) and the general handling is different.

[Lykurgus]

I've always been adamant that 4WD should be a licence in itself - in the same vein as Motorbikes and the various Truck classes.
The wheelbase is much shorter, and the ground clearance is much higher - you're driving on stilts, essentially (well, that's how it feels on the road, anyway).
The handling is nothing like a sedan or station wagon, and almost NO 4WD owner seems to realise it. I'm sick of watching them take corners too fast and wondering why they literally flip over.

Someone mentioned fuel consumption, I believe - this only changes whe 4WD is actually engaged, or the front hubs are locked (in 2WD, they spin freely).

(Disclosure:- I have a motorbike, once had a 4WD, and have a truck licence in the army - theirs are 4WD too)

[Guest]

I've always been adamant that 4WD should be a licence in itself - in the same vein as Motorbikes and the various Truck classes.
The wheelbase is much shorter, and the ground clearance is much higher - you're driving on stilts, essentially (well, that's how it feels on the road, anyway).
The handling is nothing like a sedan or station wagon, and almost NO 4WD owner seems to realise it. I'm sick of watching them take corners too fast and wondering why they literally flip over.

Someone mentioned fuel consumption, I believe - this only changes whe 4WD is actually engaged, or the front hubs are locked (in 2WD, they spin freely).

(Disclosure:- I have a motorbike, once had a 4WD, and have a truck licence in the army - theirs are 4WD too)

A 2WD transit is much more unstable than my 4x4 Impreza.
I DO know how to handle it.
The stopping distance is among the shortest on the road as are other aspects of it's primary safety. That's the ability to avoid an accident. Secondary safety is how a car behaves when it actually hits something, that's what I prefer to avoid.

Fuel consumption is always a poor point of any 4x4. The weight and the drag of the extra transmission does it no favours. A coast down test shows that well.
Some 4x4's roll and handle poorly. Some however are excelent, even by normal car standards. It's wrong to group them all into one class and legislate on that basis.